13 | Chuck DeGroat on Cultivating Character in a Narcissistic Age
October 15, 2026
In this season finale, David Kinnaman and Ashley LaLonde sit down with Chuck DeGroat, professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary, licensed therapist, and author of the new book Who You’re Becoming, to explore new Barna data on trust in church leaders—including that celebrity pastors score just 30 out of 100 among U.S. adults, ranking above only politicians (26) and far below Christian pastors overall (55). Together, they unpack why narcissism is less about grandiosity and more about fear and self-protection, how Chuck’s arrogance was confronted early in his ministry, and the one question every leader should be asking the people around them: “How do you experience me?” Plus, in this episode, David and Ashley reflect on the marks of a truly humble leader: good listening, curiosity, and a quiet confidence that doesn’t need the microphone.
- Get Chuck DeGroat’s new book, Who You’re Becoming.
- How Much Do Americans Trust Christian Churches?
- Download the free 10 Trends Shaping Faith, Culture & the Future of the Church report from Barna and Gloo.
- Watch this episode on Barna’s YouTube Channel.
- View all Faith and Culture Report podcast episodes on our podcast page.
